2008 House Bill 148 (Increase health plan payments to chiropractors)

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Introduced by Rep. Dennis Keene on January 8, 2008, to increase payment schedules for chiropractic services.
- Referred to the House Banking and Insurance Committee on January 10, 2008.
- Reported in the House on February 13, 2008, favorably, 1st reading, to Calendar.
Passed in the House (80 to 7) on February 27, 2008. [Vote Details and Comments]
Received in the Senate on February 28, 2008.
- Referred to the Senate Health and Welfare Committee on March 3, 2008.
- Reported in the Senate on March 28, 2008, favorably, to Rules.
- Substitute offered in the Senate on March 28, 2008, to require the Office of Insurance to set up a cost and quality recognition program after consultation with chiropractors and the health insurance industry that is agreeable to both parties.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Julie Denton on March 28, 2008, to make a title amendment.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Tom Buford on April 2, 2008.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Tom Buford on April 2, 2008.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Tom Buford on April 2, 2008.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Tom Buford on April 2, 2008.
- Amendment offered by Sen. Tom Buford on April 2, 2008.

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Comments

Introduced by Rep. Dennis Keene on January 8, 2008. Passed in the House (80 to 7) on February 27, 2008. New Comment

1) Chiropractors [by Anonymous Citizen on March 16, 2008]
I do not see them as blessings, but
as persons who work on the spinal cord
on persons. They are called Chiropractic
treatments. They assist in relieving tension
also but that is it.
When is comes to muscles in our bodies, then
we have physiotherapists who help alot more.
Cheerios

Nanaimo, BC
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2) RE: Chiropractors [by Anonymous Citizen on March 19, 2008]
Chiropractic "treatments" as you so eloquently refer to Adjustments are much more than relief of tension in the spine. Every nerve ending in your body ends in your spinal column. When you have pinched nerves and spinal alignment issues you can suppress your immune system, have numbness and tingling in your extremities, allergy problem, asthma, etc. I am confident I'm wasting my breath, but gave it a shot.
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3) Chiropractic Adjustments are a blessing... [by Anonymous Citizen on March 14, 2008]
I have received Chiropractic adjustments for about 15 years now. I suffered many years from migraines and occasionally had to miss work because of them. I've even visited an emergency room because a migraine was so severe that I became violently ill.
I can tell you that a chiropractor has helped me tremendously. MD's just want to push pills which I guarantee are going to be quite expensive over the course of several years. If you've never had a chiropractic manipulation/adjustment, then don't knock it. It was a lifesaver for me since I no longer have to suffer.
DC's have studied long and hard to get where they are today and I'm glad.
Try it, you might like it!!!
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4) Junk charges [by Anonymous Citizen on March 12, 2008]
This is the United States, a country in which we practice Westernized medicine. This is peer-reviewed with scientific evidence. Peer-reviewed, evidence-based medicine does not, by the way, support the fact that a manipulation causes any changes to the 'alignment' of the spine, read MRI-based studies from major medical journals. What Chiros call an "adjustment" is just a release of a naturally-occuring chemical in the body, so it feels good. Your so-called ethical Chiros who want to keep people coming back quarterly or monthly or whatever are looking to keep their patients wanting that high forever with the lie that it "aligns" their spine. Show me MRI or other evidence of this alignment. Chiros do make people feel good, as I'm sure do crystal ball readers and herbalists. But if it doesn't have peer-reviewed, scientific evidence to back it up, or it requires the user to come back for treatments forever (the maintenance that Medicare and other carriers DO NOT cover), insurance companies should not have to pay for them. Not $1.13 and not $0.13. It all ads up over time and if we allow one, we'll start allowing all. CUT THE COSTS!
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5) meds [by Anonymous Citizen on March 25, 2008]
Check your journals for the latest meds out there. But make sure you check each week, because that is how often they find out that they actually are harming your patients. Wow, how good is peer review and scientifically based, when the pham. companies alter the info. just to sell a few more pills. Check your facts so you don't sound like an idiot next time.
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6) wow - are we all idiots? [by Anonymous Citizen on March 25, 2008]
It seems like everyone who is skeptical of unfettered access to chiropractor care "sounds like an idiot" to you. Since the overwhelming public opinion of chiropractors is pretty poor, I would think you would want to educate about your position rather act like a bully on a playground. Explain to us why a person can go to a chiropractor once, twice, or even three times a week for years with only short term relief. When we go to a physician, we expect to get our problem to get fixed at some point a cease active treatment. How is perpetual care from a chiropractor a good deal for anybody but a chirorpractor? If your answer is that I sound like an idiot, I'm going to write both my reps to oppose any bill which would make it easier for chiropractors to milk insurance policies.
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7) RE: Wow are we all idiots? [by tatyjo1971 on March 27, 2008]
Hi, I just wanted to make a small interjection to your post. There are many cases that Chiropractic care does "cure" a problem. For example, my brother-in-law had a problem with his vertebrae pinching some nerves in his back and causing real problems down his legs. A surgeon wanted him to have surgery for this and gave a grim diagnosis even after surgery. He went to a chiropractor, received 5 adjustments and has never had to go back and is back playing basketball. There are many many cases that this rings true. My guess would be that those who think you only receive temporary relief from a chiropractor have never received care themselves.
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8) about the junk charges [by Anonymous Citizen on March 19, 2008]
You have not then been to pubmed and look at the peer reviewed articles. They don't put anything back. They add mobility to an immobile joint. Look up the research. It also does have an affect on the muscles. What is connected to the joint, muscle? When you had mobility to a joint, you release the tension in the muscle. Chiropractors saying alignment is no different that MD's saying a pinched nerve. It is easier for the patient. The nerve is not really pinched, but irritated in most cases. The problem with this comment board is that most of you don't read the research. Look at pubmed and mantis and quality research website. not from google. Finally, some patients go to chiropractic monthly because their life or job causes enough stress to require it. Those who put down chiropractors with our proper research are either uneducated or just plain ignorant.
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9) junk charges [by Anonymous Citizen on March 14, 2008]
Recently I had the opportunity to listen to what in medicine was not peer reviewed. I know this will alarm you but there are no double blind studies supporting heart surgery, however I hear the the doctors performing this surgery would love some double blind studies to help with proving that this is not voodoo medicine. I am sure if you look hard enough you can find a place to voluteer. Secondarily the New England Journal of medicine used to not allow biased research which was paid for by the pharmaceutical companies. This is not longer the case. When the pharmaceutical companies or insurance companies want to ante up they will find exactly how effective chiropractic is and how much medication is unnecessary. Note the Manga report and the potential cost savings if chiropractic care was supported universally.

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10) Junk Charges? [by tatyjo1971 on March 13, 2008]
Oh this is so cute. He is so smart and so educated and is likely in the pocket of the insurance companies. I, however, work for an insurance agency and have seen the powers of chiropractic help cure asthma. I am living proof that it is a possiblity. I have seen a chirpractor help my brother in law who was diagnosed with an issue that required "surgery". When in reality he needed an adjustment to release his spine off of a group of nerves that were causing numbness and tingling down his leg. A surgeon wanted to open up his back to perform an adjustment.

With your ignorant ranting, it's no wonder you entered this under as an "Anonymous Citizen".
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11) abandon pseudoscience [by empir on March 7, 2008]
Chiropractors need to stay withing the boundries of science, and abandon mysticism. There's no real difference between spinal manipulation whether done by a DC, DO, or PT. DCs, get over yourselves.
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12) Get over who? [by Anonymous Citizen on March 13, 2008]
I am a dc. Have been for 25 years. I have performed many thousand adjustments complete with expert soft tissue release and mild traction. Like Tiger Woods, I stay practiced and have the skill. How many adjustements has a PT performed? Probably just a few. Please don't let them "crack" me. Moreover, most D.O.'s don't adjust and couldn't for any reason. They redicule what they can't perform. There are thousands of peer reviewed papers, many by major universities but the "no peer journal" line persists in the debate.
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13) educate YOURSELF [by Anonymous Citizen on March 8, 2008]
Obviously, you have never had a ChiropracTIC ADJUSTMENT...maybe a manipulation, but I doubt that. Sounds like you need to get over yourself. Do a little research before you make yourself sound like an idiot on the web!!!
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14) Office Manager [by Anonymous Citizen on March 3, 2008]
Let me say that I have worked in the medical industry for nearly ten years. I have worked in offices with MDs or DCs, and sometimes both. Yes, at the same time. At the office I now work at there are no chiropractors. Having seen how each profession is treated by the insurance companies, I have some observations.

This bill is an attempt to make a level playing field. The insurance companies have been trying to starve the chiropractic profession out of business for many years now. To what end? Sort of like racism or something? Are chiropractors and their profession not worthy of making a living in our state?

There are roughly 500 chiropractors in our state, and what, over ten thousand medical doctors? The money going to the chiropractic profession out of the money reimbursed for services is infinitesimal. Less than a drop in the bucket.

No one is going to point at the reimbursement rates for work comp and jump through the roof. It is not that great, generally speaking, but for chiropractors, it would be a step up from most health plans out there.

The cost to the insured, as mentioned is $1.13. That is the number I recall seeing. Whew, I don’t know if we can handle the increase. That seems like a lot of money!! HA HA Just a little levity people. The insurance industry told the legislators that to enact this bill it would drive up insurance rates that they would “be forced” to pass on to consumers. And the chiropractic profession had the number ready for when that came up.

Just to give you some background, the reason this bill came up is because of the disparity between how the insurance companies treat MDs and DCs. Most insurance plans will pay the MD for an office visit AND a procedure. Not so for a DC. They will pay either for an office visit, or for the adjustment, but not both. They do not do that to the MDs. In addition to paying very little for treatment.

The insurance companies saw that the chiropractic associations were likely going to get this bill to a committee for a vote, and asked the associations to come to an agreement rather than go through the legislative process. They refused to work with the chiropractors for many years on this issue and it took them this long to get a bill, and so it is about time, and kudos to them for doing the right thing.

I know of chiropractic offices who spend sometimes an inordinate amount of time with their patients. Twenty to thirty minutes for muscle work. They just treat their patients and do what they need to help with their problems. And they do this regardless of your insurance reimbursement. Imaging spending thirty minutes with a patient for ten to fifteen dollars. Just to give you a hint, if you have a policy with NO copay, that plan generally pays the DC less than other plans with a copay. The insurance company does not pick up more of the tab, they actually decrease the amount paid.

Ask your DC what they make on an office visit with your copay, and see what the answer is. You may be embarrassed to know how little it is.

Many plans limit the number of visits you may have in a calendar year. I think the low twenties is a good generalization. Oh, and don’t forget, this number is for either chiropractic visits or physical therapy visits. Using either service counts towards the other in many policies.

Wow, there are some comments by people who really don't know what they are talking about. Most chiropractors are honest, ethical people. You hear and read about the bad ones on the news, but you don't hear about the comparable medical doctors. Trust me, they are out there. I could give you names. How is it possible that most of a profession are “bad” when they come from different family backgrounds, different states, and different schools? That is just not a possibility.

Let’s talk auto:

One medical doctor I know treating auto accident victims will charge as much as $4,000 for a single office visit for trigger point injections. I know attorneys who complain about this, but they can't do anything about it. There are more than a few MDs who go out of their way to treat auto patients and may not have the patient's best interests at heart. It is not just the chiropractic profession. Those of us who work in the industry know who is who. And the "who" are really very few. MD or DC.

ER visits? How about three to five thousand dollars for all the testing.

According to the studies, half of all people involved in an auto accident will suffer injuries. Out of all people injured in an auto accident, half will heal with no residuals, and half will have some kind of permanent issue to deal with. I happen to be one of the latter. I was involved in an auto accident in July of 2000. It was not my fault, if that matters. I have headaches daily, upper back pain, pain in my neck, sometimes excruciating low back pain, and have trouble sleeping. It is five am as I now type, and I have been up since three am. I used to work out all the time; that part of my life is over. I have gone from 5’8” and about 165 pounds to 205 pounds. And I have lost most of the muscle mass I gained from years in the gym. Nothing to be done, as this is NOT the kind of pain you can work through. Not at all.

The only thing to relieve my headaches, which can bring tears to my eyes, is a cervical adjustment. Lower back? Don’t work no more. Will NOT adjust. Probably scar tissue. And I am not doing anything to force it, and I won’t let anyone else. It is a permanent condition.

So, extended treatment for accident victims? Almost eight years. It is going to be a lifetime. I hope those reading don’t have to ever deal with this.

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15) If only it wouldn't spread [by commerce helps everyone on February 29, 2008]
I agree that chiropractors aren't reimbursed by insurance companies like they should be. I hope that the doctor networks will consider that discrepancy when they negotiate agreed rates. What everyone needs to consider is ***when prices paid out by insurance companies are mandated by state law, the companies tend to LEAVE THE STATE.*** Remember the Brereton Jones administration? He wanted to "beat Hillary to the punch" on health care reform. In doing so, he successfully drove all but BC/BS out of Kentucky. Thus, no competition and premiums went out of sight.
There has to be a better way to achieve better reimbursement for chiropractors.

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16) peer review them [by Anonymous Citizen on March 1, 2008]
Letting patients, and in some instances the chiropractor themselves, determine how much treatment is needed is like letting the fox guard the hen house. If they want higher rates, mandate a referral to a specialist at some point. If the patient isn't showing improvement after 4 months, get them seen by an orthopaedic surgeon. Otherwise, jack up the deductible at some point if the treatment changes from rehabilitative to maintenance.
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17) Chiropractic Patient and worker [by Anonymous Citizen on February 29, 2008]
I happen to work for an honest ethical chiropractor. That is why it's frustrating to see the writeoffs insurance demands or the high copays they force on the patients. Insurance companies do not want to pay for chiropractic care? Why??? Cause chiropractic care works and can get an employ back to work faster without relying on addictive medications and visits to orthopedic surgeons. In a perfect world we would have medical doctors and chiropractors working hand in hand for the good of the patient. Instead we have medical doctors vs chiropractors because of insurance companies. Your insurance company is employing people who know nothing about healthcare to process your claims. Do you really want some non medical person determining whether or not medical care was necessary? This bill is fair, chiropractors need to be reimbursed more than $25.36 for a 3 area spinal manipulation. Oh yeah and the patient is paying roughly 90 % of that allowable for their copay. I had migraines for 10 years, I don't have them now? Why? Chiropractic care. We typically see patients for collision injuries for about 3 months total, not years as some would like you to believe. And the total cost of the bill is much less than the allowed amount under most liability policies. And the auto insurance industry does check to see that the care was necessary and that it was actually performed. So some of you are very misinformed. I hope that this bill passes the Senate as easily as it passed the House. Then maybe we will finally start seeing the people who can't come in because they can't afford the high copays.
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18) A few maybe [by Anonymous Citizen on February 29, 2008]
I agree, there are a few ethical chiropractors out there. I have a chiropractor friend who tells his patients his goal is to get them down to quarterly or even semi annual visits once they learn exercises and so forth to keep their backs in good shape. Of course this type of ethics means that success with patients requires constantly attracting new patients, rather than living off of a consistent client base.

But I am amazed at how many auto case PIP liens I have seen with a $500 ER bill and a $9,500 chiropractor bill. Amazingly, the patient is often discharged as having reached maximum medical improvement the month after the PIP benefits expire. Very often, this is 6 or 12 months after the accident. Well beyond the 6 to 8 weeks of physical therapy or chiropractic care normally recommended for whiplash cases.

If the abuse against the health insurance policies is half as bad as the PIP abuse, no wonder the fees are being cut. PIP is a double edge sword. It has cut down on litigation for small cases, but it also is the single largest expenditure for auto liability policies because there is no meaningful way to keep the bills in check without filing a lawsuit against the insured person. So what do you do with profession that, as a whole, cannot be trusted to regulate themselves? You certainly don’t let them charge whatever they want, let them provide an unlimited amount of service to a patient, and then spread that cost out over the rest of the population without some kind of check and balance. That is socialism, not good insurance practices.
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19) Yes!! [by Anonymous Citizen on February 28, 2008]
For many years the chiropractors have recived penneys. With the insurance companies setting prices. So the patient pays a 20 dollar co pay and the insurnace pays (after much Perfect paperwork) about 2 or 3 dollars. But they pay for Viagra, prozac and poison pain pills and needless carpal tunnel surgeries and cat scans. MD's teach the public to run to them every time we burp. A Chiropractic adjustment is to a massage as a root canal is to a cleaning.
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20) Real reality [by Anonymous Citizen on February 27, 2008]
Health insurance is not a commodity and does not cost less the bigger the group. In fact an individual, who is healthy, can purchase an individual health policy with equal benefits to a group plan for much less than they can in a group.

I am a small business owner and I have done my research. The insurance companies are not the enemy, the providers (Drs. and hospitals, etc.) may be.

Over the last 10 years the health insurers have kept their administrative expenses (profit included) to an average of about 15%. Profit margins average 4% to 7%. I don't know about you but I cannot run my business on 15%.

Granted they are collecting billions of dollars and that makes 15% a lot of money, but guess who got the other 85%.....providers (Drs., hospitals, pharmacy companies, medical equipment companies etc.)

If you want to talk about greed and glut look on the other side. How many Drs. have to compete in the market the same way that a small business person does? I have to give estimates, references and price my product to compete in the market. How many Drs. do that?.....None.

Ask your Dr. what he charges for an office visit, he probably won't even know. While it is different for each carrier since they have to negotiate it is also different for someone paying cash and someone without insurance and even different still for a Medicare patient (if they will take them at all).

One thing is for sure, there is no consideration to what other Drs. in the area charge. No one shops the cost because their insurance will pay for it and they don't care what it costs.

A simple colonoscopy in Lexington cost $794.00 at one local preferred provider, the exact same procedure at a local hospital costs $3,876.00. The hospital did 127 more than the lower cost provider in 2006? It happens because people don't pay the bill, insurers do.

This bill is socialism at best if it fixes cost for any provider in the marketplace without doing it for all of them.

I say make them compete for customers like all of the rest of us. I'll bet that they get real creative then and the costs will go down. Basic economics, competition keeps cost down.
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21) Response to lexington small business owner [by Anonymous Citizen on February 29, 2008]
It appears that you may have done research on medical doctors and their reiumbursement but you still have some research to do on chiropractic reimbursement in the state of KY.

I work for an insurance agency and quote Anthem and Humana for small businesses daily. I see quotes getting higher, benefits getting slimmer. I feel for small business owners, but you are misinformed about who is the enemy. I have to argue that it does happen to be the insurance industry.
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22) Myth vs Reality [by Anonymous Citizen on February 21, 2008]
Myth: This will make your premiums go up because of:
a) It will require chiropratic care to be part of all insurance policies.
b) It is expensive to offer chiropratic care as a benefit.

REALITY:
a) chiropractic care has been a required bill for many years now (over ten I think) and this will be unchanged.
b) As opposed to other benefits offered on insurance plans, chiropratic care costs $1.13 per month (from the insurance industry's estimates)

Wake up, this is nothing more than a scare tactic to keep reimbusment low and income high (which needs to happen for an industry to net 60 billion a year)

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23) reality [by Anonymous Citizen on February 4, 2008]
The reality is that insurance companies are taking advantage of small businesses that cannot negotiate collectively because that is illegal. It is another example of big business puting small businesses out of business. They use their mass leverage to unilaterally dictate the fee they will pay the chiropractor, thus maximizing their profit. It is not based on the actual cost to provide such service as is the Workmans comp fee schedual. Unfortunatly there are many single provider medical doctors in the same position, that is why we have organized into large groups but then the quality of care suffers. This law is the legislators protecting the little guy in a regulated industy.
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24) We should have a choice. [by Anonymous Citizen on January 18, 2008]
Someone on here said they don't want chiropractic care covered because they don't want to pay for a service they don't use. The majority of services covered the majority of us don't use. However, it should be available for a time when it may be needed. We should all have a choice between medication and chiropractic care. There are many benefits to having chiropractic care in your insurance plan that benefit you and do not effect your premiums. Drugs used for pain managemenet are often addictive, are over perscribed and highly abused. Drugs often have side effects and then more drugs are given to treat those side effects and so on. I would much rather support chiropractic pain management than to support someones drug habit. With legislation to prevent abuse on the part of patient, doctor and insurance company this could only be a win!
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25) Wake up KY!! [by Anonymous Citizen on January 17, 2008]
As a concerned citizen of Kentucky, I feel that this is a reasonable bill. I have a chiropractor and I can't tell you how much I appreciate him. However, I DO NOT understand the logic of insurance companies in not wanting to pay for my chiropractic care!! I had one MRI that cost more than a year of my care at the chiropractor!! And that was just the test!! With all the healthcare reform that is buzzing around political campaigns today, I can't help but think that all of our healthcare professionals should be paid fairly. Afterall, they go through very intensive training and give up years of their life to provide care for you and I (have you checked out the amount of education that chiropractors receive?). In addition, I am sure they must have thousands of dollars in student loans that must be repaid. I am tired of reading about the multi million and billion dollar profits that are made by insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Who are we going to turn to when we have no doctors to provide the much needed care? If they haven't had a raise since '97 like they claim (and I believe after some research)...there is something really wrong here!! I can't recall anything costing less or even the same price as in 1997!! No wonder they want reform. Come on Kentucky....support this profession before it's too late and we lose valuable resources to other states/countries that have much more to offer!!
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26) You already pay for a chiropractic benefit. [by Anonymous Citizen on January 6, 2008]
Whether you use it or not, you already pay for a chiropractic benefit if you have insurance. This bill does not require health insurance to cover chiropractic, it is already covered. What this bill does is require fair reimbursement to chiropractors for the services performed. Based on benefit amounts the reasonable expected increase in premium "should" be less than $1.00. Any more than that and the insurance companies are gouging their insureds pockets for profit.
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27) Doesn't make any sense [by Anonymous Citizen on January 8, 2008]
Medical Doctors take a discount from their full rates if they accept medical insurance. It is called a volume discount.

Why do chiropractors expect to set their own rates and get paid 100%? Why are they any more able to police their own expenses than M.D.s?

This will drive rates up and drive health insurers out of the state just like the last time we tinkered with health insurance laws. I like have the choice of 4 health insurers over the 1 I had a few years ago. Don't screw it up again.
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28) This plan is GREAT for 2008! [by mikegambacorta on January 5, 2008]
The rising health care costs are due to the use of expensive perscription meds and surgeries, which often require much more treatment for months after.

Chiropractic has a researched and proven track record of reducing employers fees on worker comp injuries, and returning employees back to work faster and cheaper than tradition medicine.

Chiropractic care also reduces the rate of future injury, and releases a more proactive worker into your companies.

This type of heath care may not be one that you "use", but you will be glad you have it when you "need" it.

If you have not been to a Chiropractor, you are missing the boat. These Doctors are well trained, and board certified here in the USA. All health care in the future should not just cover but also reward those who seek preventative health care.

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29) This plan is GREAT for 2008! [by Anonymous Citizen on January 5, 2008]
The rising health care costs are due to the use of expensive perscription meds and surgeries, which often require much more treatment for months after.

Chiropractic has a researched and proven track record of reducing employers fees on worker comp injuries, and returning employees back to work faster and cheaper than tradition medicine.

Chiropractic care also reduces the rate of future injury, and releases a more proactive worker into your companies.

This type of heath care may not be one that you "use", but you will be glad you have it when you "need" it.

If you have not been to a Chiropractor, you are missing the boat. These Doctors are well trained, and board certified here in the USA. All health care in the future should not just cover but also reward those who seek preventative health care.

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30) what? [by Anonymous Citizen on December 19, 2007]
Keene must be a chiropractor
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31) Support for Chiropractic Care [by bshaner635 on December 19, 2007]
What some people don't seem to understand is that our spine is the main frame of our bodies and if the spine is out of alignment then everything, including nerves, muscles, etc. are out of alignment causing pain. When you go to a chiropractor, he/she re-aligns your spine to where God intended it to be. When you have to continue care, it is just like going to an orthodontist and getting braces - you must wear a retainer or your teeth will move back. If you don't continue chiropractic care, your spine will go back as well. I wonder how many of those against insurance covering chiropractic care have ever gone to a chiropractor, I think they would be amazed of the difference that could be made for them - if they find the right chiropractor for them - it is just like any other doctor, some are a better match for the patient than others!
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32) I dont want to pay for a benefit I don't use [by newmark on December 15, 2007]
Is this being funded by the American Chiropractors Union or something?

I've never been to a Chiropractor. While I believe it's everyone's right to seek whatever care they so choose, I don't want *my* health insurance to be forced to provide such care, which will in-turn jack up everyone else's rates. If I want a plan with Chiropractic coverage, I'll buy it myself.
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33) [by newmark on December 15, 2007] [by tatyjo1971 on February 5, 2008]
Have you ever been to an oncologist? Have you ever been to an OB/GYN, podiatrist, pediatric surgeon or, by chance, an orthopaedic surgeon? If you answered no to any of those are you rallying to have them paid at a lesser scale because I am a life and health licensed insurance agent and PROMISE that you are paying for all of these services. Food for thought!
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34) Bend over.... [by Anonymous Citizen on December 14, 2007]
and watch our health insurance rates go up.

A reasonable amount of chiropractic care is already covered by health insurance. If someone needs chiro to get over an acute injury, much like physical therapy, that is fine. This bill would fund those malingerers who go to chiropractors for several months or years and treat it like an expensive massage.

Don't make us subsidize that care through this obnoxious bill.
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35) Insurance rates [by Anonymous Citizen on December 27, 2007]
Chiropractic care currently accounts for less then 1% of all claims recieved by insurance companies. Even a doubling of benefit would raise that to under 2%. Don't let insurance companies use this scare tactic to influence you from the truth. Rates contiue to increase, but not because of nominal fees charged because of chiropractic care. In fact, chiropractic care has been shown to reduce dependance on pain medication, return people back to work faster, and provide more long term relief then other modes of treatment. The cost off set by potential medication use and missed time from work actually acts in favor of reducing insurance rates. But insurance companies would never say that.
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36) Maybe so, but [by Anonymous Citizen on December 28, 2007]
That's probably true if only health insurance is considered. Is this bill supposed to address PIP? That is where most of the chiropractor abuse occurs. And of course, the PIP bills are most often paid without question, until the patient magically reaches 'maximum medical improvement' when the $10,000 benefit is exhausted.

I'd be for better pay rates for chiro bills if there is a referral from a physician like there is for a physical therapist. It is the long term chiropractor that deserves oversight, and to what insurance companies object to.
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37) This is Good for all people [by Anonymous Citizen on January 16, 2008]
The amount of monthly insurance premimum for MD's is about $42.16 acording to the most recent data at the KY office of insurance. Your Chiropractic premium is about $1.13 and from what I understand you can get plans that do not cover chiropractic. This bill just adjusts the amount chiropractors are paid for the services they provide which is .68 of 1% of the all money paid out by the insurance companies. This will not drive up the costs of premiums it will only force insurance companies to be "Fair" and "Reasonable" something they do no do on their own. Come on people use your heads. They (the insurance companies) constantly raise your premiums all the while offering you higher and higher co-pays with less coverage, they cut the money they pay to doctors and chiropractors and therapists and keep the rest of the money. Chiropractor and other good small businesses are leaving our great state and going to Indiana, Tennessee, and Ohio where they rates are closer to normal. THe last insurance adjustment was made in 1997. How would you all like to work for the same money for 10 years. Good work guys! Hope it passes!
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38) Chiropractic patient [by commerce helps everyone on February 25, 2008]
I agree that chiropractors aren't reimbursed by insurance companies like they should be. I hope that the doctor networks will consider that discrepancy when they negotiate agreed rates. What everyone needs to consider is ***when prices paid out by insurance companies are mandated by state law, the companies tend to LEAVE THE STATE.*** Remember the Brereton Jones administration? He wanted to "beat Hillary to the punch" on health care reform. In doing so, he successfully drove all but BC/BS out of Kentucky. Thus, no competition and premiums went out of sight.
There has to be a better way to achieve better reimbursement for chiropractors.
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